1. on your new album you have like a "list of links", and you also listed the communist party of the USA. Do you think it is now easier to speak open about communism and the "witch trial era" is finally over, or is it only possible in the hardcore scene?

in the us it's really hard. It is easier here. We come over here, and in east Germany, no matter where you are, people are very open to speak to speak about communism. In the us it's...we went through the McCarthy Era, that was were
people were jailed, forced to commit suicide, all kinds of crazy stuff because they were communists. And now, josh and i in the band actually belong to the communist party and organize to do stuff with that. So we put in on there because we're part of it.

2. but why a party? It seems the more effective way turned out to be the "direct action" way.

because for the longest time i was part of just this amorphic "i-believe-this-but"...who's behind me on it? You know, nobody! There is a bunch of other people going: "I think that, too"...Cool! alright, we both think the same! So i wanted to get involved with a group that had the same ideas and were already doing something. Plus i think that...i tried to do it at least and josh, get into it and not necessarily just total party line. It's not that i'm out there to support everything that the communist party does. I think that there is a need to people to get involved and organized and than bring certain groups together. Like the communist are talking about the anarchists, everybody hates the socialists. And i think it is very important that people get into these different groups and actually organized together to get things done. Because the more we argue and call each other hypocrites and assholes and sorts and shit, nothing's gonna happen. Back in the day the CIA, the FBI, government groups used to have to infiltrate like political parties and stuff because they were getting too big and organized. Now, they don't have to do that, because we're doing a good job at it ourselves and infiltrating each other and basically making all of our movements totally knocked.

3. but do you feel that the organisation every party needs to have causes some problems itself? I remember, i was a member of the communist party of germany when i was 17, but i didn't stay for long, because at a party meeting they didn't anything besides leader roles and who should be leader, who should stay leader, why...so i was totally pissed. That wasn't what i was in for.

in the communist party, and i don't know if you do the same here, you have the big group and in different states you got your different clubs in each state, and you one member from that and they go to the main place and blow and bla
bla bla and all this stuff. When something like this happens within our group i go and say something about it. You're not powerless to say something. If something within it pisses you off you want it done, you can't stand on it, you say "wait! look, we haven't talked about this. Can we talk about it?" and then it gets talked about. No matter what group you're in, as long as sort of and you make sure that certain needs and certain ideas are being met within that group, than i think it's definitely worth it to stand behind it and to try make some things happen. But i also think there are definitely pluses in like the anarchist movement, the socialist movement, stuff like that. I wish that we could bond a little bit more with those groups. Let's see what happens.

4. in the states you have more or less a 2 party system...

well, actually a 1 party system. They're both capitalists!

5. yeah, i mean you have to choose between...

..capitalist and capitalist! It's like...greedy pig and...ahem...greedy pig. There's no choice. It's either you pick george bush( jun.) who is murder hungry with the death penality and supports nafta**( north american free trade agreemet)
and wto***( world trade organisation) and things like that or al gore who also supports nafta and wto, who also has a long history of censorship in the music industry. So either way you're picking an asshole. They're both also in the
backpockets of the coal industry which have been buying up all the other means of power. Like solar, wind, water...stuff like that. They're more clean and senseful.

7. so you feel like it helps you to be in an organisation to fight against this whole system?

yes. The only thing that, and this is something i'm having a problem now with the party, is they are all standing behind al gore right now. And the reason they are is just because the fact that they feel that george bush(jun.) is so
much worse. They trying to get votes...which puts the party in a weird position because of the fact that they totally against ralph nader( eco party). I can understand the reasons why, there are certain reasons why and that's fine and
i understand that, but i personally would be voting for ralph nader. And i think he's a good candidate with the issue. It's something i disagree with but it's something that i think isn't going to totally kill my idea of what's going on. But that's the main thing i'm having a problem right now with the party is that they're putting their money and time and effort behind a capitalist.

8. ok, for the next part i took your record and picked some lines that made me think about several things or that reflected somehow what i've been thinking about... First song:" where's your anger, where's your rage...?" that's
something i felt lately. Today it seems people get active by buying records and that's it. Making an anti-racist stance is by buying "anti- racist records".

right

9. so, do you think you can motivate the people in the scene to get more active?

some people not. There's no changing some people. I think there are people that are very set in their ways and they would much rather sit around and talk about revolution than do anything about it. But then i also think there are a lot of people, especially, and that's the best, is: i love the influx of new kids Into the scene. Because they're not jaded yet. And those are the kids, they come in the KORN- shirts, like SLIPKNOT...that's awesome! I love it when these kids come into the scene, because they're the most...like you can give me a hundred diy-punk jaded kids against one kid in a SLIPKNOT- shirt. And that kid gonna be the one that does something. You know, against all these fucking
idiots that would rather sit around and write a zine about something stupid. So, i think there's a lot of hope. The new breed of kids coming in. Have gotten into heavier music because the mainstream stopped but than have gotten into
the underground "oh, there's more stuff!" and than they get into that. There's more politics going on, there's more stuff besides: "break shit and kill!".

10. yeah, it's like when i got into it it was the music, but than it was more than the music, it was ideals, it was politics and philosophies...but now i feel like: yepp, heard this one before. do you think that now it isn't that time for revolution or a punk scene? It all started being way more political back in the reagan- era. So half of the bands than had some anti-reagan-statements and stuff like this. I mean you could end up in jail or beaten up by cops just for being a punk. You could feel the pressure. So there was more anger and more activity. Do you think that that's kinda obstacle, something that blocks the action now? It is so easy to be "punk"?

I don't think it is just because there isn't enough oppression. You know, I mean that is definitely the same. You matter what they put on, reagan, clinton, it doesn't matter. They're still fucking people over. It is just the same. I
think it has a lot impact. I don't think people in the punk and hardcore scene fight that much because revolution and change is no longer part of the hardcore scene anymore. It doesn't belong to us anymore. Because of the fact that for
the longest time we let it slip away. And i think it is better that way because now, instead of it being the fight of punk and hardcore kids you just sit around and go: "yeah, i'm political, too" now, in the mainstream society in the u.s. at least, because most of the u.s. is working class poor. Most of the people there. And now it is seeping into there. They're all are going to be fucked over. They all know somethings going wrong. And they're sick and tired of everything. You even can see it like in protests now in seattle, in philly, in stuff like that you got a lot more working class hard heads hanging out with the punks. And i think that's better. The people who are actually being oppressed
now, you can look in a crowd of hardcore/ punk kids and you won't find that many people who are all that oppressed, you know. It's just a fact. And that's why with the new record we tried to sort to turn things around on the people who are listening to inspire them to do something with their privilege. As opposed to just sit around and say how poor you are. Bitching and mourning about stuff. You have privileges. A lot people in the hardcore scene do. and it's no bad thing. The bad thing is what you do with it. If you're doing something good with that privileg, right on, that's perfect. So i think it takes us going outside of this and touching peoples lives who really need it. Who really are oppressed, who got kicked out of their jobs, you know, everything going wrong.

11. ha, next part! "what does it mean to a little town in iowa", you know that line. We have big goals, big ideals of revolutions, big things we want to change, but what does it mean to the little man? That was something i was thinking about lately.

right! In the u.s., and i'm sure it happens here, too, with the corporations as they had a time of record profit. Corporations will drop almost all of their workforce and move to another area where they can pay less money and totally annihilate the landscape, totally annihilate the people there. And...no bid deal! You know, meanwhile people are starving, people are dying to can feed their families. And meanwhile we sit around and talk about dumb punk politics! I care about political prisoners, i care about racism, sexism, that stuff like that, but it's gotten so cliché. What about the guy who doesn't give a fuck any of that stuff because he can't afford to give a fuck about it. He
doesn't have a job, his wife left him, he got like three kids to support, you know. what the fuck does he care about mumia abul-jamal? Or any of the other political prisoners? Or any of our stupid little protest we go to? Or sitting
around in a coffee shop going: "i think marx was right because bla bla bla..." it doesn't matter! And let's actually take what we think and go to these people who really need it, talking to them and, for christ's sake just go into a bar, have a drink, talk to a person, you know, a real person that might not think the way we do, i don't know, talk about tv, talk about the game, whatever...make some friends! Talk about something real!

12. ok:"you label me class rank..." i fell like every person needs to label everyone else, just to get along with them. It's really hard to get behind it. You have to constantly fight it. So how to do it, what is the way to overcome all this label shit?

people gonna label you, no matter what. There is just nothing you can do about it because they need to. You just can't spend the time and energy to feel like "why are people labeling me?". Fuck, who cares, there gonna label
you either ways! So why worry about it?

That song in particular "the abominations of these virtues" is about people who try to, i guess force their opinions on other people through intimidation. Personal aspect. We're not talking on a world wide scale, like violence or anything. We're talking about personal things, like when people are digusting like all the things we were talking about in a group. A lot of times in a group have the sorta "alpha"group. You know, that needs to pressure their point
on everyone else through intimidation or talking louder or violence or something to that matters.

13. but did it never happen that you talk to people and you come to that point of what you are, waht you're doing, how you're thinking and then they start to avoid you?

i don't bother telling them. I don't have that much dedication to a group or a party that i need to be like: "let me tell you, I'm a communist:", and then scare the fucking hell out of him! I don't care enough! I mean if I'm gonna sit down and talk to somebody I'm just gonna talk to him. Maybe I bring up some stuff like worker's rights. It doesn't mean much to me to say: "Oh yeah, by the way, I'm a communist and you should be one, too!" i don't care if they become communists, i don't give a flying fuck because I'm not out there to try to make them join the party. I'm out there trying to talk to people and discuss ideas and give them help to, in their own way, find what they want and what they need to change.

14. let's get to something what i call the "moses complex". You know moses led his people out of egypt to the promised land but he himself was not allowed to enter this land. So all this fighting and struggling towards a better society, to help people. But i know that i will never ever see a bettersociety.

see, i know what you're talking about. I think that anybody that deals with revolutionary work has that feeling. But if you're going to allow that to take over, how you feel, why do anything? You might as well just not do anything if you think that way. So I always remain positive. "Yeah, let's gonna do something, we're gonna change it, it's gonna happen! And if it doesn't, ok, next try!". There's never a point where i gonna see myself:"ahh, it's not gonna work. I mean I still do it but it's not gonna work." I fully believe it's gonna work! And i fully believe that we can do something about it.

15. do you have like "little success" that keeps you going?

yeah! Oh yeah, you always have this! And that's what keeps you going. It's the little things. And then every once in a while you have big things that happen. It's just incredible! Like Seattle, you know which was just incedible! But then you also have defeats. And they become very frustrating especially when the defeats come not only from the right wing but from your own people, your own organisation. And it's hard but, as posicore as it sounds, you gotta stay positive about it. And you gotta just keep going. Not listening to the dumb bullshit.
1. on your new album you have like a "list of links", and you also listed the communist party of the USA. Do you think it is now easier to speak open about communism and the "witch trial era" is finally over, or is it only possible in the hardcore scene?

in the us it's really hard. It is easier here. We come over here, and in east Germany, no matter where you are, people are very open to speak to speak about communism. In the us it's...we went through the McCarthy Era, that was were
people were jailed, forced to commit suicide, all kinds of crazy stuff because they were communists. And now, josh and i in the band actually belong to the communist party and organize to do stuff with that. So we put in on there because we're part of it.

2. but why a party? It seems the more effective way turned out to be the "direct action" way.

because for the longest time i was part of just this amorphic "i-believe-this-but"...who's behind me on it? You know, nobody! There is a bunch of other people going: "I think that, too"...Cool! alright, we both think the same! So i wanted to get involved with a group that had the same ideas and were already doing something. Plus i think that...i tried to do it at least and josh, get into it and not necessarily just total party line. It's not that i'm out there to support everything that the communist party does. I think that there is a need to people to get involved and organized and than bring certain groups together. Like the communist are talking about the anarchists, everybody hates the socialists. And i think it is very important that people get into these different groups and actually organized together to get things done. Because the more we argue and call each other hypocrites and assholes and sorts and shit, nothing's gonna happen. Back in the day the CIA, the FBI, government groups used to have to infiltrate like political parties and stuff because they were getting too big and organized. Now, they don't have to do that, because we're doing a good job at it ourselves and infiltrating each other and basically making all of our movements totally knocked.

3. but do you feel that the organisation every party needs to have causes some problems itself? I remember, i was a member of the communist party of germany when i was 17, but i didn't stay for long, because at a party meeting they didn't anything besides leader roles and who should be leader, who should stay leader, why...so i was totally pissed. That wasn't what i was in for.

in the communist party, and i don't know if you do the same here, you have the big group and in different states you got your different clubs in each state, and you one member from that and they go to the main place and blow and bla
bla bla and all this stuff. When something like this happens within our group i go and say something about it. You're not powerless to say something. If something within it pisses you off you want it done, you can't stand on it, you say "wait! look, we haven't talked about this. Can we talk about it?" and then it gets talked about. No matter what group you're in, as long as sort of and you make sure that certain needs and certain ideas are being met within that group, than i think it's definitely worth it to stand behind it and to try make some things happen. But i also think there are definitely pluses in like the anarchist movement, the socialist movement, stuff like that. I wish that we could bond a little bit more with those groups. Let's see what happens.

4. in the states you have more or less a 2 party system...

well, actually a 1 party system. They're both capitalists!

5. yeah, i mean you have to choose between...

..capitalist and capitalist! It's like...greedy pig and...ahem...greedy pig. There's no choice. It's either you pick george bush( jun.) who is murder hungry with the death penality and supports nafta**( north american free trade agreemet)
and wto***( world trade organisation) and things like that or al gore who also supports nafta and wto, who also has a long history of censorship in the music industry. So either way you're picking an asshole. They're both also in the
backpockets of the coal industry which have been buying up all the other means of power. Like solar, wind, water...stuff like that. They're more clean and senseful.

7. so you feel like it helps you to be in an organisation to fight against this whole system?

yes. The only thing that, and this is something i'm having a problem now with the party, is they are all standing behind al gore right now. And the reason they are is just because the fact that they feel that george bush(jun.) is so
much worse. They trying to get votes...which puts the party in a weird position because of the fact that they totally against ralph nader( eco party). I can understand the reasons why, there are certain reasons why and that's fine and
i understand that, but i personally would be voting for ralph nader. And i think he's a good candidate with the issue. It's something i disagree with but it's something that i think isn't going to totally kill my idea of what's going on. But that's the main thing i'm having a problem right now with the party is that they're putting their money and time and effort behind a capitalist.

8. ok, for the next part i took your record and picked some lines that made me think about several things or that reflected somehow what i've been thinking about... First song:" where's your anger, where's your rage...?" that's
something i felt lately. Today it seems people get active by buying records and that's it. Making an anti-racist stance is by buying "anti- racist records".

right

9. so, do you think you can motivate the people in the scene to get more active?

some people not. There's no changing some people. I think there are people that are very set in their ways and they would much rather sit around and talk about revolution than do anything about it. But then i also think there are a lot of people, especially, and that's the best, is: i love the influx of new kids Into the scene. Because they're not jaded yet. And those are the kids, they come in the KORN- shirts, like SLIPKNOT...that's awesome! I love it when these kids come into the scene, because they're the most...like you can give me a hundred diy-punk jaded kids against one kid in a SLIPKNOT- shirt. And that kid gonna be the one that does something. You know, against all these fucking
idiots that would rather sit around and write a zine about something stupid. So, i think there's a lot of hope. The new breed of kids coming in. Have gotten into heavier music because the mainstream stopped but than have gotten into
the underground "oh, there's more stuff!" and than they get into that. There's more politics going on, there's more stuff besides: "break shit and kill!".

10. yeah, it's like when i got into it it was the music, but than it was more than the music, it was ideals, it was politics and philosophies...but now i feel like: yepp, heard this one before. do you think that now it isn't that time for revolution or a punk scene? It all started being way more political back in the reagan- era. So half of the bands than had some anti-reagan-statements and stuff like this. I mean you could end up in jail or beaten up by cops just for being a punk. You could feel the pressure. So there was more anger and more activity. Do you think that that's kinda obstacle, something that blocks the action now? It is so easy to be "punk"?

I don't think it is just because there isn't enough oppression. You know, I mean that is definitely the same. You matter what they put on, reagan, clinton, it doesn't matter. They're still fucking people over. It is just the same. I
think it has a lot impact. I don't think people in the punk and hardcore scene fight that much because revolution and change is no longer part of the hardcore scene anymore. It doesn't belong to us anymore. Because of the fact that for
the longest time we let it slip away. And i think it is better that way because now, instead of it being the fight of punk and hardcore kids you just sit around and go: "yeah, i'm political, too" now, in the mainstream society in the u.s. at least, because most of the u.s. is working class poor. Most of the people there. And now it is seeping into there. They're all are going to be fucked over. They all know somethings going wrong. And they're sick and tired of everything. You even can see it like in protests now in seattle, in philly, in stuff like that you got a lot more working class hard heads hanging out with the punks. And i think that's better. The people who are actually being oppressed
now, you can look in a crowd of hardcore/ punk kids and you won't find that many people who are all that oppressed, you know. It's just a fact. And that's why with the new record we tried to sort to turn things around on the people who are listening to inspire them to do something with their privilege. As opposed to just sit around and say how poor you are. Bitching and mourning about stuff. You have privileges. A lot people in the hardcore scene do. and it's no bad thing. The bad thing is what you do with it. If you're doing something good with that privileg, right on, that's perfect. So i think it takes us going outside of this and touching peoples lives who really need it. Who really are oppressed, who got kicked out of their jobs, you know, everything going wrong.

11. ha, next part! "what does it mean to a little town in iowa", you know that line. We have big goals, big ideals of revolutions, big things we want to change, but what does it mean to the little man? That was something i was thinking about lately.

right! In the u.s., and i'm sure it happens here, too, with the corporations as they had a time of record profit. Corporations will drop almost all of their workforce and move to another area where they can pay less money and totally annihilate the landscape, totally annihilate the people there. And...no bid deal! You know, meanwhile people are starving, people are dying to can feed their families. And meanwhile we sit around and talk about dumb punk politics! I care about political prisoners, i care about racism, sexism, that stuff like that, but it's gotten so cliché. What about the guy who doesn't give a fuck any of that stuff because he can't afford to give a fuck about it. He
doesn't have a job, his wife left him, he got like three kids to support, you know. what the fuck does he care about mumia abul-jamal? Or any of the other political prisoners? Or any of our stupid little protest we go to? Or sitting
around in a coffee shop going: "i think marx was right because bla bla bla..." it doesn't matter! And let's actually take what we think and go to these people who really need it, talking to them and, for christ's sake just go into a bar, have a drink, talk to a person, you know, a real person that might not think the way we do, i don't know, talk about tv, talk about the game, whatever...make some friends! Talk about something real!

12. ok:"you label me class rank..." i fell like every person needs to label everyone else, just to get along with them. It's really hard to get behind it. You have to constantly fight it. So how to do it, what is the way to overcome all this label shit?

people gonna label you, no matter what. There is just nothing you can do about it because they need to. You just can't spend the time and energy to feel like "why are people labeling me?". Fuck, who cares, there gonna label
you either ways! So why worry about it?

That song in particular "the abominations of these virtues" is about people who try to, i guess force their opinions on other people through intimidation. Personal aspect. We're not talking on a world wide scale, like violence or anything. We're talking about personal things, like when people are digusting like all the things we were talking about in a group. A lot of times in a group have the sorta "alpha"group. You know, that needs to pressure their point
on everyone else through intimidation or talking louder or violence or something to that matters.

13. but did it never happen that you talk to people and you come to that point of what you are, waht you're doing, how you're thinking and then they start to avoid you?

i don't bother telling them. I don't have that much dedication to a group or a party that i need to be like: "let me tell you, I'm a communist:", and then scare the fucking hell out of him! I don't care enough! I mean if I'm gonna sit down and talk to somebody I'm just gonna talk to him. Maybe I bring up some stuff like worker's rights. It doesn't mean much to me to say: "Oh yeah, by the way, I'm a communist and you should be one, too!" i don't care if they become communists, i don't give a flying fuck because I'm not out there to try to make them join the party. I'm out there trying to talk to people and discuss ideas and give them help to, in their own way, find what they want and what they need to change.

14. let's get to something what i call the "moses complex". You know moses led his people out of egypt to the promised land but he himself was not allowed to enter this land. So all this fighting and struggling towards a better society, to help people. But i know that i will never ever see a bettersociety.

see, i know what you're talking about. I think that anybody that deals with revolutionary work has that feeling. But if you're going to allow that to take over, how you feel, why do anything? You might as well just not do anything if you think that way. So I always remain positive. "Yeah, let's gonna do something, we're gonna change it, it's gonna happen! And if it doesn't, ok, next try!". There's never a point where i gonna see myself:"ahh, it's not gonna work. I mean I still do it but it's not gonna work." I fully believe it's gonna work! And i fully believe that we can do something about it.

15. do you have like "little success" that keeps you going?

yeah! Oh yeah, you always have this! And that's what keeps you going. It's the little things. And then every once in a while you have big things that happen. It's just incredible! Like Seattle, you know which was just incedible! But then you also have defeats. And they become very frustrating especially when the defeats come not only from the right wing but from your own people, your own organisation. And it's hard but, as posicore as it sounds, you gotta stay positive about it. And you gotta just keep going. Not listening to the dumb bullshit.
1. on your new album you have like a "list of links", and you also listed the communist party of the USA. Do you think it is now easier to speak open about communism and the "witch trial era" is finally over, or is it only possible in the hardcore scene?

in the us it's really hard. It is easier here. We come over here, and in east Germany, no matter where you are, people are very open to speak to speak about communism. In the us it's...we went through the McCarthy Era, that was were
people were jailed, forced to commit suicide, all kinds of crazy stuff because they were communists. And now, josh and i in the band actually belong to the communist party and organize to do stuff with that. So we put in on there because we're part of it.

2. but why a party? It seems the more effective way turned out to be the "direct action" way.

because for the longest time i was part of just this amorphic "i-believe-this-but"...who's behind me on it? You know, nobody! There is a bunch of other people going: "I think that, too"...Cool! alright, we both think the same! So i wanted to get involved with a group that had the same ideas and were already doing something. Plus i think that...i tried to do it at least and josh, get into it and not necessarily just total party line. It's not that i'm out there to support everything that the communist party does. I think that there is a need to people to get involved and organized and than bring certain groups together. Like the communist are talking about the anarchists, everybody hates the socialists. And i think it is very important that people get into these different groups and actually organized together to get things done. Because the more we argue and call each other hypocrites and assholes and sorts and shit, nothing's gonna happen. Back in the day the CIA, the FBI, government groups used to have to infiltrate like political parties and stuff because they were getting too big and organized. Now, they don't have to do that, because we're doing a good job at it ourselves and infiltrating each other and basically making all of our movements totally knocked.

3. but do you feel that the organisation every party needs to have causes some problems itself? I remember, i was a member of the communist party of germany when i was 17, but i didn't stay for long, because at a party meeting they didn't anything besides leader roles and who should be leader, who should stay leader, why...so i was totally pissed. That wasn't what i was in for.

in the communist party, and i don't know if you do the same here, you have the big group and in different states you got your different clubs in each state, and you one member from that and they go to the main place and blow and bla
bla bla and all this stuff. When something like this happens within our group i go and say something about it. You're not powerless to say something. If something within it pisses you off you want it done, you can't stand on it, you say "wait! look, we haven't talked about this. Can we talk about it?" and then it gets talked about. No matter what group you're in, as long as sort of and you make sure that certain needs and certain ideas are being met within that group, than i think it's definitely worth it to stand behind it and to try make some things happen. But i also think there are definitely pluses in like the anarchist movement, the socialist movement, stuff like that. I wish that we could bond a little bit more with those groups. Let's see what happens.

4. in the states you have more or less a 2 party system...

well, actually a 1 party system. They're both capitalists!

5. yeah, i mean you have to choose between...

..capitalist and capitalist! It's like...greedy pig and...ahem...greedy pig. There's no choice. It's either you pick george bush( jun.) who is murder hungry with the death penality and supports nafta**( north american free trade agreemet)
and wto***( world trade organisation) and things like that or al gore who also supports nafta and wto, who also has a long history of censorship in the music industry. So either way you're picking an asshole. They're both also in the
backpockets of the coal industry which have been buying up all the other means of power. Like solar, wind, water...stuff like that. They're more clean and senseful.

7. so you feel like it helps you to be in an organisation to fight against this whole system?

yes. The only thing that, and this is something i'm having a problem now with the party, is they are all standing behind al gore right now. And the reason they are is just because the fact that they feel that george bush(jun.) is so
much worse. They trying to get votes...which puts the party in a weird position because of the fact that they totally against ralph nader( eco party). I can understand the reasons why, there are certain reasons why and that's fine and
i understand that, but i personally would be voting for ralph nader. And i think he's a good candidate with the issue. It's something i disagree with but it's something that i think isn't going to totally kill my idea of what's going on. But that's the main thing i'm having a problem right now with the party is that they're putting their money and time and effort behind a capitalist.

8. ok, for the next part i took your record and picked some lines that made me think about several things or that reflected somehow what i've been thinking about... First song:" where's your anger, where's your rage...?" that's
something i felt lately. Today it seems people get active by buying records and that's it. Making an anti-racist stance is by buying "anti- racist records".

right

9. so, do you think you can motivate the people in the scene to get more active?

some people not. There's no changing some people. I think there are people that are very set in their ways and they would much rather sit around and talk about revolution than do anything about it. But then i also think there are a lot of people, especially, and that's the best, is: i love the influx of new kids Into the scene. Because they're not jaded yet. And those are the kids, they come in the KORN- shirts, like SLIPKNOT...that's awesome! I love it when these kids come into the scene, because they're the most...like you can give me a hundred diy-punk jaded kids against one kid in a SLIPKNOT- shirt. And that kid gonna be the one that does something. You know, against all these fucking
idiots that would rather sit around and write a zine about something stupid. So, i think there's a lot of hope. The new breed of kids coming in. Have gotten into heavier music because the mainstream stopped but than have gotten into
the underground "oh, there's more stuff!" and than they get into that. There's more politics going on, there's more stuff besides: "break shit and kill!".

10. yeah, it's like when i got into it it was the music, but than it was more than the music, it was ideals, it was politics and philosophies...but now i feel like: yepp, heard this one before. do you think that now it isn't that time for revolution or a punk scene? It all started being way more political back in the reagan- era. So half of the bands than had some anti-reagan-statements and stuff like this. I mean you could end up in jail or beaten up by cops just for being a punk. You could feel the pressure. So there was more anger and more activity. Do you think that that's kinda obstacle, something that blocks the action now? It is so easy to be "punk"?

I don't think it is just because there isn't enough oppression. You know, I mean that is definitely the same. You matter what they put on, reagan, clinton, it doesn't matter. They're still fucking people over. It is just the same. I
think it has a lot impact. I don't think people in the punk and hardcore scene fight that much because revolution and change is no longer part of the hardcore scene anymore. It doesn't belong to us anymore. Because of the fact that for
the longest time we let it slip away. And i think it is better that way because now, instead of it being the fight of punk and hardcore kids you just sit around and go: "yeah, i'm political, too" now, in the mainstream society in the u.s. at least, because most of the u.s. is working class poor. Most of the people there. And now it is seeping into there. They're all are going to be fucked over. They all know somethings going wrong. And they're sick and tired of everything. You even can see it like in protests now in seattle, in philly, in stuff like that you got a lot more working class hard heads hanging out with the punks. And i think that's better. The people who are actually being oppressed
now, you can look in a crowd of hardcore/ punk kids and you won't find that many people who are all that oppressed, you know. It's just a fact. And that's why with the new record we tried to sort to turn things around on the people who are listening to inspire them to do something with their privilege. As opposed to just sit around and say how poor you are. Bitching and mourning about stuff. You have privileges. A lot people in the hardcore scene do. and it's no bad thing. The bad thing is what you do with it. If you're doing something good with that privileg, right on, that's perfect. So i think it takes us going outside of this and touching peoples lives who really need it. Who really are oppressed, who got kicked out of their jobs, you know, everything going wrong.

11. ha, next part! "what does it mean to a little town in iowa", you know that line. We have big goals, big ideals of revolutions, big things we want to change, but what does it mean to the little man? That was something i was thinking about lately.

right! In the u.s., and i'm sure it happens here, too, with the corporations as they had a time of record profit. Corporations will drop almost all of their workforce and move to another area where they can pay less money and totally annihilate the landscape, totally annihilate the people there. And...no bid deal! You know, meanwhile people are starving, people are dying to can feed their families. And meanwhile we sit around and talk about dumb punk politics! I care about political prisoners, i care about racism, sexism, that stuff like that, but it's gotten so cliché. What about the guy who doesn't give a fuck any of that stuff because he can't afford to give a fuck about it. He
doesn't have a job, his wife left him, he got like three kids to support, you know. what the fuck does he care about mumia abul-jamal? Or any of the other political prisoners? Or any of our stupid little protest we go to? Or sitting
around in a coffee shop going: "i think marx was right because bla bla bla..." it doesn't matter! And let's actually take what we think and go to these people who really need it, talking to them and, for christ's sake just go into a bar, have a drink, talk to a person, you know, a real person that might not think the way we do, i don't know, talk about tv, talk about the game, whatever...make some friends! Talk about something real!

12. ok:"you label me class rank..." i fell like every person needs to label everyone else, just to get along with them. It's really hard to get behind it. You have to constantly fight it. So how to do it, what is the way to overcome all this label shit?

people gonna label you, no matter what. There is just nothing you can do about it because they need to. You just can't spend the time and energy to feel like "why are people labeling me?". Fuck, who cares, there gonna label
you either ways! So why worry about it?

That song in particular "the abominations of these virtues" is about people who try to, i guess force their opinions on other people through intimidation. Personal aspect. We're not talking on a world wide scale, like violence or anything. We're talking about personal things, like when people are digusting like all the things we were talking about in a group. A lot of times in a group have the sorta "alpha"group. You know, that needs to pressure their point
on everyone else through intimidation or talking louder or violence or something to that matters.

13. but did it never happen that you talk to people and you come to that point of what you are, waht you're doing, how you're thinking and then they start to avoid you?

i don't bother telling them. I don't have that much dedication to a group or a party that i need to be like: "let me tell you, I'm a communist:", and then scare the fucking hell out of him! I don't care enough! I mean if I'm gonna sit down and talk to somebody I'm just gonna talk to him. Maybe I bring up some stuff like worker's rights. It doesn't mean much to me to say: "Oh yeah, by the way, I'm a communist and you should be one, too!" i don't care if they become communists, i don't give a flying fuck because I'm not out there to try to make them join the party. I'm out there trying to talk to people and discuss ideas and give them help to, in their own way, find what they want and what they need to change.

14. let's get to something what i call the "moses complex". You know moses led his people out of egypt to the promised land but he himself was not allowed to enter this land. So all this fighting and struggling towards a better society, to help people. But i know that i will never ever see a bettersociety.

see, i know what you're talking about. I think that anybody that deals with revolutionary work has that feeling. But if you're going to allow that to take over, how you feel, why do anything? You might as well just not do anything if you think that way. So I always remain positive. "Yeah, let's gonna do something, we're gonna change it, it's gonna happen! And if it doesn't, ok, next try!". There's never a point where i gonna see myself:"ahh, it's not gonna work. I mean I still do it but it's not gonna work." I fully believe it's gonna work! And i fully believe that we can do something about it.

15. do you have like "little success" that keeps you going?

yeah! Oh yeah, you always have this! And that's what keeps you going. It's the little things. And then every once in a while you have big things that happen. It's just incredible! Like Seattle, you know which was just incedible! But then you also have defeats. And they become very frustrating especially when the defeats come not only from the right wing but from your own people, your own organisation. And it's hard but, as posicore as it sounds, you gotta stay positive about it. And you gotta just keep going. Not listening to the dumb bullshit.